Our message, called the gospel, is simply telling people what Jesus did at the Cross and what happens to anyone who receives the truth of that message. I've believed that all my converted life and have delivered the truth of it as a Southern Baptist pastor/teacher for fifty-eight years of ministry.I'm also a___[boy, how I hate labels, but for the sake of clarity, I'll use one.]___five-point Calvinist and have been longer than most of you have been alive. But I was asked one time how I could believe in "Divine Election" and "Particular Redemption" [which I prefer over limited atonement] and then stand before people and say Jesus died for them! The questioner, following his logic on this issue, then said, "To be honest, you'd have to tell some that Jesus DID NOT die for them."
My response to that questioner and anyone who has the same thoughts is this. I'm committed to standing before every single human being I possibly can and saying to them that Jesus died for sinners. And if they are willing to recognize they are that and are willing to call upon Him, in brokenness and faith, as Lord and Savior, they will be saved.
You see, I do not believe anyone is saved because they are elected or is not saved because they are not elected. [And, as I said, I do believe in election.] But anyone who is ever saved will be so because of the finished work of Christ that is received as a broken, repentent sinner.
Where in the scripture does it say or proclaim that anyone has the right or even the responsibility to stand before anyone and say "Jesus DIDN'T die for you" OR to say or proclaim that "Jesus DID die for you?" Every textual reference I've ever read in the biblical materials that says "Jesus died for you" is said to people after they have experienced His grace.
But we do have both the right and the responsibility to stand before all peoples everywhere and tell them who Jesus is and that He did, in fact, die for sinners and that He has given the command to repent and call upon Him in faith to every person, promising that whoever does that will, in fact, be saved.
Whether they know why they were willing to repent and believe___because it was good thinking on their part or because God caused them to think about it in the first place___ or whether they believe they were chosen before the foundation of the world because God looked down through time and saw they would believe__ or whether God made the choice Himself for His own reasons before time__ or whether they know the faith they've exercised is a gift of God in and of itself__ or the natural ability of fallen people that is of itself without merit__ makes no difference in the presentation of the gospel to them. [You might want to read that again__slowly.]
Those are all things we can study, debate and teach later being true to how we understand them scripturally. But no view one holds on any one of those issues alters the need for the gospel being presented and believed by the hearer. Also, that presentation of the gospel can be done cooperatively as Southern Baptists world-wide unless we start demanding uniformity of doctrines instead of the unity of the Spirit because of our Christ/Cross/Tomb agreement with each other. [To illustrate the point of the last post.]
Now, I could begin to show why I believe God chose of His own will, BEFORE the world began, who would be saved and why I believe faith IS a gift and why I believe regeneration brings about an ability to believe.....ad infinitum. But that is for the instruction and growth of those who are already believers. While it is the instruction of the saints in doctrine and legitimate and needed, it is not the gospel message.
Someone may say, "How do you reconcile the seeming contradiction between the words and point of the third paragraph with the words and statement of the ninth paragraph?"
Ummmmmm...I think I'll just be satisfied with the clear biblical "antinomy" [Two things in theology that appear to be contradictory.] that exists between those two things, and I emphasize only "appears" to our limited understanding to be contradictory.
One day the Father will have to make all our limited understanding of theology perfectly clear when we get home. Until then I'll trust His Word to be true and continue to grow in my understanding of that Word, while all the time, telling ALL the people, "Jesus died for sinners and if you will repent and trust Him you WILL be one of those sinners that will be saved."
Paul B.
13 comments:
Paul,
There is, at least, one old bloke whose heart you make glad, every time you write. That's no small thing these days!
I also hate labels, especially in this day and age when so many church leaders are declaring the necessity for them writ large .
Charles Spurgeon said, “I'm never ashamed to avow myself a Calvinist. I do not hesitate to take the name of Baptist, but If I'm asked what my creed is, I reply, ‘it is Jesus Christ!’”
At least one great evangelistic, baptistic preacher agrees with us:)
Excellent post! I heartily agree with it.
I've also noticed the Bible seems to use the word "elect" to refer to people who are already saved. So when I'm teaching and that word appears, I tell the class not to worry about it .. that if they're believers, they're the elect.
You said so much here that I've thought, but never written. Good onya....
All I can say is, with Aussie J, Bob, and Spurgeon with me, I'm in tall cotton and satisfied. Thanks guys.
You both know from your experience that there are good people on both sides of any one of the truths mentioned here and that makes it doubly good our fellowship is around the One of whom the gospel speaks.
BUT...it is fun to find kindred spirits in some of the other issues as well.
Bro. Paul,
You always do a great job stating your position. (Far better than most.) I have listened, studied and read for years trying to better understand the way Calvinists think and believe. This post has helped tremendously. If everyone were as articulate as you, this matter of Calvinism might not be a problem within the ranks of the SBC.
Thank You,
Off The Cuff
Off the C,
You are very kind.
I've thought for years that people who call themselves "Calvinists" are often their own worse enemy. They tend to do several things that irritate the fool out of me personally.
1__They too often make the 5 points the basis of fellowship which I believe violates scripture, especially Paul's concern expressed in the Corinthian letter.
2__They too often teach them as if there could be no legitimate difference of opinion on how they are to be viewed.
3__They too often celebrate a system of theology rather than the gospel message of salvation.
4__They too often exhibit a spirit of elitism that is detrimental to the Kingdom of God and, for obvious reasons, turns average people off.
Honestly, the same could be said about any system of belief that becomes more important than the gospel and genuine relationships with people.
Anyway___I'll stop here knowing I'm preaching to the Choir. Thanks for your comment.
Off the C,
You are very kind.
I've thought for years that people who call themselves "Calvinists" are often their own worse enemy. They tend to do several things that irritate the fool out of me personally.
1__They too often make the 5 points the basis of fellowship which I believe violates scripture, especially Paul's concern expressed in the Corinthian letter.
2__They too often teach them as if there could be no legitimate difference of opinion on how they are to be viewed.
3__They too often celebrate a system of theology rather than the gospel message of salvation.
4__They too often exhibit a spirit of elitism that is detrimental to the Kingdom of God and, for obvious reasons, turns average people off.
Honestly, the same could be said about any system of belief that becomes more important than the gospel and genuine relationships with people.
Anyway___I'll stop here knowing I'm preaching to the Choir. Thanks for your comment.
Paul,
It seems that your experience reveals the same traits as those who beat the "Calvinist" drum in my country.
I placed the word Calvinist in parenthesis because I don't think Calvin, himself, would have been pleased to be associated with much of which is practiced in his name today.
That's not to say that the man was without occasionally obvious mistakes and failures, as with myself.
It saddens me that more don't realize that they change their allegiance from Christ to a mere religious "ism".
Whether Wesleyanism, Calvinism, Arminianism, Catholicism, religionism,or,paganism, all "isms" have one thing in common,which can be summed up as Christianism ; they are I-centered.
A faith which rests on the finished work of our Lord, Jesus Christ, is Christ-centered!
Paul, you do get me going :)
Paul,
Wonder why I think of this Scripture? “Steer clear of foolish discussions which lead people into sin of anger with each other.” “Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish arguments which only upset people and make them angry.” (2 Timothy 2:16, 23 Living)
With that said, I’m not anger but may I disagree?
I think of Jesus saying: “…How often have I wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.” (Luke 13:34 NLT)
If Jesus had NOT selected these with the gift of salvation, this Scripture makes him a hypocrite.
His arms outstretched on the cross portray his wings of love for all.
Rex,
When I said this..".If they are willing to recognize they are that [sinners] and are willing to call upon Him, in brokenness and faith, as Lord and Savior, they will be saved."
Jesus meant what he said to Jerusalem and I meant what I said in the above statement. How it fits logically or doesn't fit logically, with the truth of election, is not an issue with me.
I can't make it fit and will have to have it explained one day. I'm OK with that. And...I believe He will.
Until then I'll keep believing He made some decisions before time that are above my pay-grade for explaining and... if anyone WILL...He will...and they will be.
Brother Paul, while I consider myself a monergist, I hold to what may be a unique position on this topic. I am curious to hear what you think.
We know that God is a just God and that He does not just let things slide. We also know that as sinners we all have committed a serious rebellion against God. We also know that each of us deserves instant punishment which would be death and hell. And yet many people continue on in a state of rebellion for many years on this earth enjoying many good things God has created and then they die in unrepentance. How can this be? How can God be just and yet allow them to live? He surely does not sweep their sin under the rug.
I believe the answer is in 1John 2:2 where it tells us that Jesus' death is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Surely Christ died to even purchased the time on earth that the non-believer has before death. Otherwise it would seem as though God is handing out mercy with no one to take the righteous punishment which would nullify His justice.
So in a sense Jesus did die for the whole world to buy their time on earth but not in a way that would cause the salvation of all.
-Brandon Craig
In reference to God's sovereignty and man's free will (as well as all biblical antinomies) -
Perhaps the most arrogant thing I can say to my heavenly Father is, "for Your Word to be true, I have to understand it".
Job: Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. Job 42:3b
David: Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain. Ps 139:6
Paul: Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! Rom 11:33
Geeman
Brandon,
I appreciate your serious thinking here and your comment.
I agree with you that the death of Christ has a benefit for all men. 1 Tim 4:10 says that Christ is, "The Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
But there appears to be a double sense there. "All men" and "especially those who believe."are not the same. So it appears all men benefit from what the old Puritans used to call "common grace."
The death of Christ according to Romans 3:26 has the result of establishing the justice of God in however He shows His mercy or grace, even to the ungodly. This may be seen in that, as you say, there no instant judgment and maybe even other things as simple as the rising of the sun and the rain falling on the just AND the unjust.[Matthew 5:45]
But the death of Christ, in some fashion, had more in view for the elect. That "more in view" was their redemption.
SO, I prefer to use the phrase "particular redemption" rather than "limited atonement" meaning that I see in the cross that God had in view the actual [as opposed to potential] redemption of his children. So I believe when Christ died for these, he did not just create the opportunity for them to save themselves by believing eventually, but really purchased for them all that was necessary to get them saved, including the grace of regeneration and the gift of faith
I don't believe, however, an agreement in all these non-essentials is necessary for someone to exercise faith in the Person and Work of Christ and experience redemption. The gospel is sufficient for that. And aren't we glad.!
Geeman,
I totally agree.
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