tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post8500675917224516639..comments2023-10-24T07:03:42.942-05:00Comments on vtmbottomline: GUEST BLOG POSTPaul Burlesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-42079840516341911662012-03-31T06:37:56.964-05:002012-03-31T06:37:56.964-05:00BBBB,
This..."Lately it seems we are being t...BBBB,<br /><br />This..."Lately it seems we are being told that women need love and men need respect. Humanly speaking, I can only accept that we all need BOTH."....is another example of trying to make a separate list of needs that winds up damaging the ability to properly relate as couples in a marriage.<br /><br /> Of course both need love AND respect and your statement..." I can only accept that we all need BOTH."....is spot on.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-7499989942386379932012-03-29T23:56:11.163-05:002012-03-29T23:56:11.163-05:00Thanks for letting a woman speak from her heart. ...Thanks for letting a woman speak from her heart. As a woman, I have felt oppressed in family and church situations, and only recently have learned the truth of the Bible that we are all one in Christ Jesus- equal, though beautifully different. <br /><br />I've been very hurt by the kinds of things I am hearing floating around as "good church viewpoints" both as a single woman and now as a married woman. <br /><br />My husband thankfully did not grow up with church thinking, so I am blessed to be loved by someone who reads Scripture for what it says and simply loves me and is willing to respect me. <br /><br />Lately it seems we are being told that women need love and men need respect. Humanly speaking, I can only accept that we all need BOTH. <br /><br />Thanks for being willing to say it as it is, guys- means the world to me, as a woman and as a child of God.The Blog bites better than the Bullet.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05768775982264747802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-71621707138593565852012-03-28T12:46:26.825-05:002012-03-28T12:46:26.825-05:00O the C,
Thanks for a great comment. You and your...O the C,<br /><br />Thanks for a great comment. You and yours are most fortunate.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I was raised in the home of an alcoholic who was drunk on drink and control. I grew up rejecting the drink but embracing the control and was just as drunk on it as he was.<br /><br />Upon becoming a believer and reading and embracing the passages in the KJV that were improperly interpreted by men I followed which, they said, told me I was to maintain control because I was a man, my whole family suffered, including Wade and his siblings.<br /><br />But Grace won out and I began to see what servanthood was all about biblically. Which, by the way, you've wonderfully described in your comment. WOW. Wouldn't have it any other way but the grace way.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-84956984058111392322012-03-28T11:20:09.197-05:002012-03-28T11:20:09.197-05:00I did not realize how blessed I am until I began r...I did not realize how blessed I am until I began reading about all of these authority issues between men and women, especially in marriage. I was raised in a Christian home and I cannot recall a single time when there was an argument over who was in charge or control. My parents modeled before me a relationship where they were partners in life, marriage and leadership. Whenever there was not quite enough food for a meal it was my Mother who was suddenly not very hungry. Whenever there were unexpected bills it was my Father who worked longer hours on the farm. Whenever we would go shopping for new Easter outfits it was usually my Mother who thought that her old dress looked just fine. Submission and sacrifice were part of their daily routine. <br /><br />Forty years ago I was blessed to meet and marry a girl whose home life mirrored my own. During our forty years we have never had a discussion, much less an argument, about who is in charge or who is in control. Superiority is not something to which either of us aspires. I dearly love honoring and serving her and she loves to respond in kind.Off The Cuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00630768359355117670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-73567369491219752012-03-28T06:58:36.163-05:002012-03-28T06:58:36.163-05:00Kate,
Thanks for stopping by.
I love this statem...Kate,<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by.<br /><br />I love this statement at your site..."Abuse in any form is NEVER God's design for relationships." How true this is.<br /><br />As I've counseled across the years with those whose marriage is dissolved because of abuse and have seen how they face guilt as believers for that failed marriage, [knowing God "hates" divorce] I remind them of two things.<br /><br />#1--God is not MORE pleased with a bad marriage kept secret BECAUSE of fear of what people will think than He is with a bad marriage made public by divorce.<br /><br />#2--God "hates" divorce yet it is said in the scriptures that He "divorced" Israel.<br /><br />One thing a Christian can be sure of is that abuse is NEVER His best.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-37340228551233171782012-03-28T06:45:10.302-05:002012-03-28T06:45:10.302-05:00Excellent post. I could not have articulated it be...Excellent post. I could not have articulated it better than Kristen. Thanks. <br /><br />I would also affirm Kristen's take on the divorce rate. It is well known that patriarchy is a contributor to high rates of domestic abuse, and the rate of domestic abuse is just as high in "Christian" homes as non-Christian homes. Research shows the divorce rate for non-abused women (those respected as equal) is 15%. The divorce rate for abused women (those not treated as equal) is 75%. Want to lower the divoorce rate? Treat women with equality, dignity and respect.Kate Johnsonhttp://www.ccada.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-77766666219448892782012-03-26T19:31:34.870-05:002012-03-26T19:31:34.870-05:00Kristen,
Thanks for confirming what Aussie J sugg...Kristen,<br /><br />Thanks for confirming what Aussie J suggested you meant from his reading of what you've written. <br /><br />I say again as I've told you before, this is one of the clearest and best explanations of the problematic "Patriarchal" issue I've read. It cuts to the heart of WHY it is so dangerous IMHO. Thanks again.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-31315350971115880802012-03-26T19:13:22.185-05:002012-03-26T19:13:22.185-05:00I am honored that you have reposted my essay here....I am honored that you have reposted my essay here. With regards to "worldly," Aussie John is quite right about how I meant it, which is how most Christians use the term. To put it in plain speech, then-- "worldly" means "of the world's system rather than Christ's" -- that is, characterized by or based on motives Christ preached against, such as selfishness, pride, power-grabbing or hatred. I used the term "worldly feminism" in order to specifically make it clear that I didn't believe ALL feminism is so motivated. <br /><br />Also let me clarify that one need not be a Christian to eschew such motives, and if any Christian claims to be completely free of them, he/she is exhibiting the very pride which is included in "worldliness." In other words, I'm not claiming, "Christians good/non-Christians bad" or anything like that. <br /><br />In short, when someone claims someone is acting out of "worldly feminism," they are claiming impure motives on the part of the person so acting. I hope that clarifies.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-85971392318926675422012-03-26T16:42:42.623-05:002012-03-26T16:42:42.623-05:00Aussie J,
I think your assumption of Kristin'...Aussie J,<br /><br />I think your assumption of Kristin's meaning of "worldly feminism" is spot on. She will have to verify that of course. <br /><br />Thanks for commenting and doing so respectfully as always.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-86987519402282199012012-03-26T15:25:47.591-05:002012-03-26T15:25:47.591-05:00Paul,
I certainly appreciate your willingness to ...Paul,<br /><br />I certainly appreciate your willingness to give Kirsten a voice on your blog.<br /><br />To Kirsten: Excellent article. Thank you!<br /><br />M.J.Austin: I would suggest that your understanding of Kirsten's use of “worldly feminism” is quite different from what I think the writer is expressing. <br /><br />“Worldly feminism”, I suggest has the distinguishing qualities of the unredeemed temporal world, whereas the feminism of Christian women has the quality of the spiritual world of those who are the redeemed in Christ.<br /><br />If I'm right in my assumption, I agree wholeheartedly with Kirsten's words.Aussie Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199918171163666399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-60993701740329280092012-03-26T15:16:35.990-05:002012-03-26T15:16:35.990-05:00M,J,
I appreciate your willingness to comment but...M,J,<br /><br />I appreciate your willingness to comment but especially in light of the fact that, knowing you would find disagreement from many here having shared your personal beliefs before, you were able to state your personal views on this issue with respect. <br /><br />I trust that those who may have a different perspective of what should constitute marriage will also be willing to state their view here with the same respect. <br /><br />Remember one and all, that is the only way any comment remains. That whether I agree with or disagree with the conclusion of any comment.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-63911434279740742942012-03-26T13:23:50.193-05:002012-03-26T13:23:50.193-05:00I liked this post but I still disliked how the aut...I liked this post but I still disliked how the author stated, "But is this truly “worldly feminism”?" <br /><br />Like worldly feminism is bad and the issue I am talking about isn't that but this. <br /><br />What is negative about worldly feminism? If there was more of it across the globe maybe mistreatment of women wouldn't be as high.<br /><br />I think the churches around the world and especially American churches should listen to all civil issues not just women and men marital injustices. <br /><br />For example: A gay Christian or any gay person for that matter that wants to be joined together in a union of marriage or simply be gay without the judgement that they are less than any other person or that they need to be fixed or they would be destroying a sacred institution. <br /><br />It was less than sixty years ago when churches thought a black person and a white person shouldn't be able to marry. <br /><br />Bigotry in any form should be addressed with any church or foundation. <br /><br />So to conclude my post, to one of my favorite bloggers, bring on worldly feminism, and gay rights, and all the "liberal" mantras that are deemed negative. And may America have a little less hate in it's heart! :)M.J. Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16318331933879727297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1885434856626210392012-03-26T12:12:30.297-05:002012-03-26T12:12:30.297-05:00Bob,
The way I see Ephesians 5 is a little bit di...Bob,<br /><br />The way I see Ephesians 5 is a little bit different than I used to. [Whatever one thinks 'head' means.]<br /><br />The word Paul used in 5:21 for "be subject to" was "Hupotassomai" in the middle voice form. It's used in verse 21 for all members toward each other. This form is asking for a "voluntary form of serving by meeting the other's needs. All members are to do this to one another and the wife to the husband.<br /><br />But when Paul described the husband's responsibility he used the word "agapao." It is the word used for Christians loving neighbor, stranger, even enemies. It is focusing on the attitude of the Christian to others and their needs. [Love is giving a person what they need with no expectations. If anything, this is a serving that's a little deeper than hupotassomai.]<br /><br />So...Agapao is almost identical with hupotassomai in it's meaning. Both involve giving up one's self-interest to serve and care for another's. Both mean being responsive to the needs of the other. And BOTH are commended to all Christians, as well as to husbands and wives.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-48717955137159597032012-03-26T11:29:14.995-05:002012-03-26T11:29:14.995-05:00Oh yeah .. I forgot one of my couple of points: Th...Oh yeah .. I forgot one of my couple of points: The passage that says wives are to be submissive also says that husbands are to love their wives <i>as Christ loved the church</i>. I personally believe the husband still has the responsibility for the marriage and the family, but I don't see where it's humanly possible for a wife to submit and a husband to sacrifice, and make it work.<br /><br />Yeah. Right. It takes a movement of God. Which He seems most willing (and able) to do.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-77873899755049622532012-03-26T11:24:14.915-05:002012-03-26T11:24:14.915-05:00As I read scripture in reference to male "aut...As I read scripture in reference to male "authority" and female "submission", I'm struck by a couple of facts.<br /><br />Number One: Jesus is the ultimate Head of the Church. <br /><br />Number Two: the shepherds of the local flock are to lead their flock in Jesus "name". In His name, authority and character (that's what Strong's said in my interlinear Bible, anyway).<br /><br />Number Three: Jesus headship was one of sacrifice. His nature was sacrificial and you can easily see that in His immediate and constant availability to the needs of others.<br /><br />Number Four: We're to be imitators of Christ .. we are His body .. and when we do not operate as He would have, we are lying about Jesus.<br /><br />Number Five. Show me where Jesus disciplined Judas Iscariot, the Apostles who couldn't cast out a demon, the woman caught in adultery, the woman at the well, or perhaps Thomas. <br /><br />Number Six: Would a sovereign God, via His Holy Spirit, err in giving a woman a Spiritual gift she couldn't use? A message she couldn't deliver?<br /><br />I get the feeling we'd have a lot fewer problems of the sort we're seeing now, if we operated according to those thoughts. Not because they'd "cause" anything, but because we'd find favor with God, and be blessed in the doing.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.com