tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post3976983184888962566..comments2023-10-24T07:03:42.942-05:00Comments on vtmbottomline: SEVEN LIES THAT CAN TRAP A MINISTRY----PART SIXPaul Burlesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-59505060724660906322010-07-18T08:57:24.189-05:002010-07-18T08:57:24.189-05:00Ken, Thanks. You're one of those who made it e...Ken, Thanks. You're one of those who made it easy.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-68886552799574788202010-07-15T13:30:56.150-05:002010-07-15T13:30:56.150-05:00Paul,
As a student under your ministry, I apprecia...Paul,<br />As a student under your ministry, I appreciated your honesty in stating that many times you were only a step or two ahead of us in sharing truth. We could see that you were in the school of hard learning and it made you special to us. You were one of us! Thanks, again, for sharing yourself.<br />Ken ColsonKen Colsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08739158716313688133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-6121913171619340812010-07-15T10:40:07.041-05:002010-07-15T10:40:07.041-05:00Christine,
A case in point to my comment about yo...Christine,<br /><br />A case in point to my comment about your comment.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-21585522472491533322010-07-15T10:25:18.241-05:002010-07-15T10:25:18.241-05:00That is kind of you to say, Paul.
For me, the mos...That is kind of you to say, Paul.<br /><br />For me, the most beautiful and profound communication I have ever encountered was when I witnessed the kindness of my Down Syndrome child to someone less fortunate than himself . . . and not a word was spoken.<br /><br />My non-verbal son is a resident of Eastern Christian Childrens Retreat in Wyckoff, NJ.<br />Patrick got up and picked out a musical toy from a shelf and carried it over to a stretcher-bound resident and very, very gently laid the toy into his hands.<br /><br />The staff tells me that my son will frequently show kindness in this way. They are always moved when they see this.<br /><br />I am fortunate, by the grace of Our Lord, to understand what 'profound' really means in the Kingdom 'cause I have learned about it from a Down Syndrome child of God. <br /><br />For me, Paul,<br />'There is no exception to that.' :)Christianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15969310497166526545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-2893712099560004702010-07-15T05:42:40.450-05:002010-07-15T05:42:40.450-05:00Christiane,
Your knowledge of history, the Church...Christiane,<br /><br />Your knowledge of history, the Church fathers, poetry, and life in general gives you a unique way of saying things that are profound but stated so simply. This is no exception to that. Thanks.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-35811418035906043092010-07-14T22:22:43.222-05:002010-07-14T22:22:43.222-05:00An old song from the sixties goes
". . and J...An old song from the sixties goes<br /><br />". . and Jesus was a sailor and He walked upon the water, and He spent a long time watching from a lonely wooden tower . . . "<br /><br />sometimes if a Christian leader feels he needs to 'be raised up' in the eyes of his flock in order to be respected, all he has to do is to imagine how Christ was raised up.<br /><br />Then he will quietly walk away from thought of pedestals;<br /> because he knows that the Only One who ever deserved to be on one,<br />chose the Cross instead.Christianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15969310497166526545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-10471886867469060512010-07-13T20:38:36.371-05:002010-07-13T20:38:36.371-05:00Anon,
Good thought about this "brother"...Anon,<br /><br />Good thought about this "brother" thing. I'm glad you raised it.<br /><br />Early in my ministry [I started pastoring when I was seventeen] I assumed everyone SHOULD call THE pastor "brother." I guess as a show of respect although I can't remember motives that far back.<br /><br />Years ago I came to be uncomfortable with titles including "Reverend" as the scriptures tell us to let the name of the Lord be reverenced and that became my motivation for divesting myself of that title.<br /><br />Several years ago I came to a personal preference of being called Paul. My name. But through the years I found an unusual thing. The older generation felt a need to call me "brother Paul." I have board members who still do after thirty years of being on the board of directors for VTM, my ministry. I've tried to not make it an issue with them. I'm not their pastor by the way.<br /><br />Seminarians insisted back then on calling me "Pastor Paul." I didn't make it an issue with them either.<br /><br />I have to admit that my understanding of multiple elders and the equality of the body has been a process of growth in me that started in the early eighties and has progressed since. It has been only the last twenty years I've come to a full understanding of preaching/pastoral ministry NOT revolving around one man. In fact I've come to see the text of scripture showing anyone gifted and anointed for a ministry in the New Covenant is to be free to excercise that gift in the church...including women.<br /><br />I just told someone a few days ago I would love to have a reunion retreat where Mary and I are able to show folks we've pastored, especially seminarians, from where we've come and how we've come to where we are today.<br /><br />This comment.. "why then as a pastor did you feel the need to be always called "Brother" Paul?"..doesn't apply and hasn't for the past twenty-five years.<br /><br />This comment.."it set you apart and above the rest of the church."..is exactly the problem that had to be overcome in my own life and is the problem I'm attempting to correct at the present time in the Body of Christ.<br /><br />I hope this helps in your understanding. Thanks for asking.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-86939647219374834742010-07-13T16:58:14.876-05:002010-07-13T16:58:14.876-05:00Paul, why then as a pastor did you feel the need t...Paul, why then as a pastor did you feel the need to be always called "Brother" Paul? No one else at the church was called brother, except for you. I would have understood calling you pastor, but I never understood brother. If we had called each other "brother" it would have made sense. But it was only reserved for you. It seemed like a way around Mt 23:8-9 - and it set you apart and above the rest of the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-69918641345959050742010-07-13T09:10:36.925-05:002010-07-13T09:10:36.925-05:00Bob,
Could not agree with your assessment more.Bob,<br /><br />Could not agree with your assessment more.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-78844519578359967922010-07-13T07:57:12.574-05:002010-07-13T07:57:12.574-05:00Paul;
"Bodylife"? Right on, brother.
...Paul;<br /><br />"Bodylife"? Right on, brother. <br /><br />At that, one's involvement in the body should be keyed to one's God-given giftedness, which is .. in my experience .. woefully under-taught in our churches. So I really do have to say "no wonder".Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-84893822878601831442010-07-13T03:39:01.772-05:002010-07-13T03:39:01.772-05:00Bob,
It is true that the "glass darkly"...Bob,<br /><br />It is true that the "glass darkly" seems to be more "darkly" about some things than it is about others. Bodylife is one of those don't you think? :)<br /><br />Hope your trip went well and glad you're back. Great pictures.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-57543312452372464392010-07-12T21:45:52.446-05:002010-07-12T21:45:52.446-05:00Lots of stuff to wax on and on, in this one.
Firs...Lots of stuff to wax on and on, in this one.<br /><br />First, to put the pastor on some pedestal is to deny that God calls different people to different roles. When I was in the insurance business, I was as called to do that as our pastor was to do what he does.<br /><br />Second, we're a bunch of humans, and to put you as a pastor on a pedestal, is to hold you to a standard you can't keep. And when the pastor tries to be something he can never be (perfect, and everything to everybody), he's apt to end up doing things he oughtn't, to try and keep up the impression.<br /><br />I suppose some day we'll learn that we really are a body, we really do each have our part to be, that all the parts are interdependent, and start acting like it. But I fear it may not be in THIS life....<br /><br />Ah well.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-30966118672146309052010-07-12T17:48:58.249-05:002010-07-12T17:48:58.249-05:00Aussie J,
As always, your journey is a trip worth...Aussie J,<br /><br />As always, your journey is a trip worth sharing. Thank you for doing so.<br /><br /><br />Rex,<br /><br />Your comment by Bishop Quayle when he said...“Preaching is the art of making a sermon and delivering it. Why no, that is not preaching. Preaching is the art of making a preacher, and delivering that. Preaching is the out rush of soul in speech. Therefore, the elemental business in preaching is not with the preaching but with the preacher. <br />It is no trouble to preach, but a vast trouble to construct a preacher.<br />What then, in the light of this is the task of a preacher? (or of anyone sharing his or her faith).<br />Mainly this, the amassing of a great soul so as to have something worthwhile to give. The sermon is the preacher up to date.”..is an absolutely superb illustration of what I'm speaking about. <br /><br />What I've conveyed is simply the making of that preacher and bringing the people along in the journey. Good stuff. Thanks.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-54547420701436029662010-07-12T15:56:25.105-05:002010-07-12T15:56:25.105-05:00Paul,
You seem to express there is NO limit to the...Paul,<br />You seem to express there is NO limit to the amount of ‘dirty laundry’ a pastor can tell without loosing respect from the congregation. Insult to injury is if the congregation is told they do it.<br /><br />I like what Bishop Alfred Quayle, American Methodist Bishop (1860-1925) said:<br /><br />“Preaching is the art of making a sermon and delivering it. Why no, that is not preaching. Preaching is the art of making a preacher, and delivering that. Preaching is the out rush of soul in speech. Therefore, the elemental business in preaching is not with the preaching but with the preacher. <br />It is no trouble to preach, but a vast trouble to construct a preacher.<br />What then, in the light of this is the task of a preacher? (or of anyone sharing his or her faith).<br />Mainly this, the amassing of a great soul so as to have something worthwhile to give. The sermon is the preacher up to date.”<br /><br />I agree preachers are not to be put on a pedestal, but neither are they to preach ‘do as I say and not as I do.’ It goes back to the old saying of something like “Your actions are so loud, I can’t hear what you say.”Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-8856093139043996982010-07-12T15:27:22.675-05:002010-07-12T15:27:22.675-05:00Paul,
Again, I have greatly appreciated your word...Paul,<br /><br />Again, I have greatly appreciated your words.<br /><br />I am thankful that I had several years as an elder before being called into pastoral ministry that was to last until ill health forced our retirement. Those years of eldership were a good training ground, enhanced by the fact that the pastor I served with was of a similar mind to yourself.<br /><br />When I was inducted into our first pastorate, the denominational "official" urged the congregation to build the pedestal high. It took two years to demolish it, but what a difference it makes when ones brethren realize they are able to have a conversation knowing that we are equally cut from the same cloth of our Adamic heritage.<br /><br />"No one of us has arrived at what the Christian life is all about and we're on the journey together."<br /><br />Amen to that!<br /><br />And I thought I was the only one. Seems like I'm in good companyAussie Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199918171163666399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-60583589963521340602010-07-12T11:51:53.001-05:002010-07-12T11:51:53.001-05:00Debbie,
You've given a solid accounting of th...Debbie,<br /><br />You've given a solid accounting of the value of a teacher who shares personal struggles. Well said.<br /><br />The flip side of that is if a teacher DOESN'T share, they are fooling no one but themselves AND people who don't have a clue about real life or Christianity. <br /><br />I'll take my chances by talking about what is real with people like you anytime. Thanks for commenting.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-28641908194659084972010-07-12T11:02:04.521-05:002010-07-12T11:02:04.521-05:00Good posts Paul. I tend to trust the leader who is...Good posts Paul. I tend to trust the leader who is open about their struggles. I can trust a person who can be honest enough to speak of struggles. It gives me a chance to see God work, allows us in the body to pray for those struggles as well as our own, and to see God work in spite of those struggles.It lets me know that God will do the same for me and that I'm not a failure as a Christian because I have struggles.<br /><br />The Apostle Paul spoke of his struggles and his inadequacies in scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com