tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post3655375496768868788..comments2023-10-24T07:03:42.942-05:00Comments on vtmbottomline: A DOUBLE-PRONGED STANCE AGAINST RACIAL BIGOTRY FROM A CHRISTIAN WHO IS AN AMERICANPaul Burlesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-52416665049396202272013-09-19T10:58:39.679-05:002013-09-19T10:58:39.679-05:00Rodney,
I’m glad you didn’t quote Karl Marx, who ...Rodney,<br /><br />I’m glad you didn’t quote Karl Marx, who said, <br /><br />“Last words are for fools who haven't said enough.” :)<br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-91936903754892741592013-09-16T09:31:41.670-05:002013-09-16T09:31:41.670-05:00Rex
Yep you won AND you got the final word!! Hav...Rex<br /><br />Yep you won AND you got the final word!! Have a good day! LOLRodney Sprayberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00354264158831825334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-696973627672991812013-09-16T06:35:08.694-05:002013-09-16T06:35:08.694-05:00Rodney, Paul,
This won’t be funny if you’re not f...Rodney, Paul,<br /><br />This won’t be funny if you’re not familiar with the TV “Monk” and his brother arguing which one is liked best by the same counselor, but here goes:<br /><br />Rodney, see; he likes me best because he addressed my name FIRST! HA<br /><br />Probably from now on, Paul will put your name first to teach me a lesson that I deserve. :) Yes, I’ve got too much time on my hands.<br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-47883800298532493882013-09-16T05:45:39.999-05:002013-09-16T05:45:39.999-05:00Rex, Rodney,
Both of you guys have added to the d...Rex, Rodney,<br /><br />Both of you guys have added to the dialogue going on here in a way that I greatly appreciate. Thank you both.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-11556363019022028542013-09-15T20:50:07.631-05:002013-09-15T20:50:07.631-05:00Rex
I believe much of your response is spot on! ...Rex<br /><br />I believe much of your response is spot on! I, like you, have learned much :)Rodney Sprayberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00354264158831825334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-37972310300577703892013-09-15T20:37:33.240-05:002013-09-15T20:37:33.240-05:00Rodney,
Besides “dialogue”, I believe your link c...Rodney,<br /><br />Besides “dialogue”, I believe your link could be much the same as ‘Brain-storming’. That’s where a group shares their thoughts and they ‘feed’ off each other to solve a problem or reach a goal. It’s like ‘iron sharpening iron’. It disproves the math that says ‘the sum is no greater than its parts’, because the ‘parts’ grow from ideas of others.<br /><br />I believe participating on blogs is much the same. I’ve learned much and even admitted I was wrong…but not very often. :) <br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-40662679668813378962013-09-15T17:18:45.029-05:002013-09-15T17:18:45.029-05:00Rodney,
Truth be known, I'm hoping your asses...Rodney,<br /><br />Truth be known, I'm hoping your assessment is correct. <br /><br />Thank you and I'm embracing your word. "dialogue" as the word that best describes what I desire to happen between people here on my blog or anywhere else for that matter.<br /><br />Your definitions of debate and discussion are spot on too, IMO. <br /><br />Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-41920415469056804042013-09-15T16:51:32.838-05:002013-09-15T16:51:32.838-05:00Paul,
Forgive me for butting in but I would like ...Paul, <br />Forgive me for butting in but I would like to gently disagree with you . Nether debate ( my thoughts vs your thoughts battle until one side wins ir one side loses) nor discussion ( my thoughts and your thoughts hang out in a conversation) occur on this forum on a regular basis. Instead, what I see is something entirely different and in my opinion far more valuable and more important....dialogue<br /><br />http://watercoolernewsletter.com/accessing-genuine-dialogue/#.UjYo82S9Kc0<br /><br />Speaking with certainty only for myself of course (though I suspect others who interact on this site feel the same) I am better because of it<br /><br />Thanks<br />Rodney Sprayberryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00354264158831825334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-90893672426525265642013-09-15T06:52:23.346-05:002013-09-15T06:52:23.346-05:00Rex,
You and I will just have to disagree on how ...Rex,<br /><br />You and I will just have to disagree on how debate and discussion might differ and which is being done. <br /><br />From what little training I have, some back in school days, I've learned to track what debaters call "Intellectually dishonest debate tactics" which are listed many places and include things such as....<br /><br />Name calling____To be dismissed as “disgruntled” or “bitter.” These are all efforts to distract the audience by changing the subject because the speaker cannot refute the facts or logic of the opponent.<br /><br />Changing the subject___Redirecting the conversation to another subject area but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting the original on-subject<br /><br />Questioning motives___This only indicates there is no error in logic, just an attempt to insinuate an error by innuendo.<br /><br />Citing irrelevant facts or logic___This is a clouding of the discussion with large amounts of words and does what #2 does, changes the subject.<br /><br />False premise___Making a statement using an assumption of "facts not in evidence." [Stating as fact some argument with facts not discussed.]<br /><br />Sloganeering___Using vague sentences or phrases that are cliches rather than facts or logic to deflect criticism. [Example..“Don’t work for money, make money work for you”]<br /><br />Cult of personality___Using particular personality characteristics as motivation for accomplishing an end which makes the end justify the means. [Example..I'm just a cranky older guy" or "You're too young to remember."]<br /><br />Vagueness___Using terms or sentences that are so vague there are no facts or logic present.<br /><br />Playing to widely held fantasies or fears___Using ideas that play to powerful fears for the purpose of overriding facts and logic.<br /><br />Stereotyping___Proving a point by citing a stereotype that supposedly applies to the discussion. [Example..When debating teachers or preachers."They are just in their Ivory Tower and wouldn't know."]<br /><br />This is just a portion of a LONG list of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics that disqualify a discussion as a true debate. These indicate what would NOT be allowed in an honest debate according to debate rules. Most blogs and comments are just polite discussion. <br /><br />So, my desire is that we let's just carry on a discussion without having to challenge these each ttime we see them. Discussion? Yes. Debate? I don't think so!.. LOL<br /><br />[Notice how our discussion has changed from the subject of the post. A true debate would not allow for that. But it's a fun discussion. ;) Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-50190871052599432412013-09-14T21:21:16.515-05:002013-09-14T21:21:16.515-05:00WARNING! WARNING!
The following is written to exp...WARNING! WARNING!<br /><br />The following is written to express my view in the hope everyone will think as me. :)<br /><br />I believe every preacher’s sermon should have the same goal.<br /><br />A debate is to consider something by discussion and arguments. Debate is as old as the hills---isn’t that what happen between the devil and Eve?<br /><br />Debate is standing for what you believe. Song: “If you don’t stand for something; you’ll fall for anything.”<br /><br />Debate is NOT fighting and quarreling. <br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-11434850346320878562013-09-14T06:56:38.965-05:002013-09-14T06:56:38.965-05:00Rex,
I think your statement.... "Thanks for ...Rex,<br /><br />I think your statement.... "Thanks for the response. You know I always like a friendly debate.".....is the crux of the difference between us. <br /><br />I neither enjoy a debate nor do I participate in them. It may be just semantics, but I see a difference in expressing ideas, though there may be a difference of opinion, and debating.<br /><br />Comments are, to me, ideas that people may respond to or not respond to, period. This is probably because I'm not attempting to convince anyone of my view or even wish they thought as I do. I enjoy my freedom of thought and ideas an extend that freedom to others," unless they violate my standard expressed above.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments.<br /><br />Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-54339256221622864402013-09-14T04:26:22.409-05:002013-09-14T04:26:22.409-05:00Paul,
Thanks for the response. You know I always...Paul,<br /><br />Thanks for the response. You know I always like a friendly debate. :)<br /><br />You stated earlier: “I hold to the principle of rejecting racial bigotry.”<br /><br />I could not agree more. In years gone by it was usually the Majority running over the minority. But today and in my experience, I believe it’s the other way around. <br /><br />I mean the Majority leans over backwards Not to offend the Minority.<br /><br />A young (Minority) ‘new hire’ machinists was running a tape controlled machine with three spindles at 50% speed which meant he got to sit twice as long before he had to change clamps etc. The ‘White’ foreman said he believed the machine could run at 100% and changed the speed. When his back was turned, the new kid broke the three cutters with a lead hammer, and told the foreman the speed was too fast. The foreman was quick to agree as the cutters cost about $100 each.<br /><br />An extreme example would be one that shocked the nation when three Minorities killed a jogger because they were bored. (The jogger was White)<br /><br /><br /><br />I’ve always thought of myself as ‘logical’, so I’ll try to make my thoughts more clear. I disagreed with the statement: “The more we listen to the voices of people of color, the better!”<br /><br />To me that is saying: ‘The more the nation listens to Blacks, the better off America will be.”<br /><br />Why should we listen to someone whose track record is NOT desired…starting with their high percentage of single parents to their high ratio of prison.<br /><br />I think of ‘Taps’ as pretty but I don’t like to hear it because of its sadness in someone dying. That’s why I don’t think the Muslim call to prayer is beautiful because Muhammad is worshiped instead of Jesus.<br /><br />https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=&q=how+often+is+the+muslim+call+to+prayer&oq=How+often+is+the+Muslim&gs_l=igoogle.1.0.0j0i22i30l9.257916.271611.0.275827.23.15.0.8.8.0.231.1642.8j6j1.15.0...0.0...1ac.1.12.igoogle.f1t8LgUHZnM<br />This link states:<br /> <br />Loud speakers are used to broadcast the prayer five times a day and is intended to bring to the mind of every believer and non-believer the substance of Islamic beliefs, or its spiritual ideology. It’s the first thing recited in the ears of a newborn babe.<br /><br />The words of the prayer are: <br />Allah is Most Great. Allah is Most Great.<br />Allah is Most Great. Allah is Most Great.<br />I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.<br />I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.<br />I bear witness that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.<br />I bear witness that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.<br />Come to prayer. Come to prayer.<br />Come to Success. Come to Success.<br />Allah is Most Great. Allah is Most Great.<br />There is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.<br /><br />If this prayer touches Obama, what does The Old Rugged Cross do?<br /><br />Paul, I don’t understand the example of virgin birth and being a Catholic. <br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-57949369789228045092013-09-14T01:29:31.222-05:002013-09-14T01:29:31.222-05:00Paul,
Great to see you back. I am of the same opi...Paul,<br /><br />Great to see you back. I am of the same opinion as yourself, if I have understood rightly, but I think I'd be wise to stop at this point :)Aussie Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199918171163666399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-50108360637948813312013-09-13T16:12:36.172-05:002013-09-13T16:12:36.172-05:00Rex,
Your logical fallacy is showing.____ "T...Rex,<br /><br />Your logical fallacy is showing.____ "The more we listen to the voices of people of color, the better!”___ "Should we agree “The most beautiful sound on earth is the Muslim Call to Prayer”?. <br /><br />That makes as much sense as someone who says of me___You believe in the virgin birth.____ You must be a Catholic." <br /><br />Part A of each of those can be true without part B following as truth. But I think you know that.<br /><br />Yes, I think you are digressing a bit. But you're being nice about it. Keep up the niceness, please. ;)Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-91390008172309320742013-09-13T15:56:17.289-05:002013-09-13T15:56:17.289-05:00The more we listen to the voices of people of colo...The more we listen to the voices of people of color, the better!”<br /><br />Should we agree “The most beautiful sound on earth is the Muslim Call to Prayer”?<br /><br />When I’d hear that in Israel a chill would go down my back. Guess I wasn’t Muslim. <br /><br />What about “Obamacare”?<br /><br />Am I digressing? <br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-78076279497105646292013-09-12T22:14:12.986-05:002013-09-12T22:14:12.986-05:00Kristen,
I read your reference, but it did NOT co...Kristen,<br /><br />I read your reference, but it did NOT convince me because I’ve experienced what I believe is true.<br /><br />Our church worked on a Black church only one day because they saw a Black man hiding behind trees as he was being shot at by another Black. I worked 40 days and was told by the Black preacher never to work alone without the doors locked as I would probably be robbed <br /><br />I complained to him that my skill saw was missing and he called the mother of a Black man that was also working. She said her son and come into some money and had gone drinking with his friends. <br /><br />An old Black deacon told me they needed Mexicans to do the work of the town. Said, “I can show you right now 20 Blacks sucking on a bottle.”<br /><br />I asked the Black preacher why he had tree limbs covering his truck loaded with scrap sheetrock. “There’s no charge if the city dump only sees tree limbs.” (He was quite proud of saving the ‘Lord’s money’.) <br /><br />He asked how much the material cost for tape and bedding. I told him I was giving it to the church, but told him when he said he needed to know because a group had pledged to pay the cost. He said, “That sounds way too cheap…I’m going to double that.”<br /><br /><br />Do you believe Obama would have been elected if he had been White? <br />Case closed.<br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-31790731052934316372013-09-12T13:11:18.037-05:002013-09-12T13:11:18.037-05:00Kristen,
Your comment is well taken. The last sen...Kristen,<br /><br />Your comment is well taken. The last sentence is the need of the hour IMHO. <br /><br />I'll check the site out. Thanks.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-66702040891070942422013-09-12T13:05:30.164-05:002013-09-12T13:05:30.164-05:00Hi, Paul! May I recommend this website?
By Their...Hi, Paul! May I recommend this website?<br /><br /><a href="http://bytheirstrangefruit.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">By Their Strange Fruit: Christianity and Race</a><br /><br />I have learned lately that even though I've always been against racism, I often unwittingly participate in racist structures. The more we listen to the voices of people of color, the better! Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-3801300044780585022013-09-11T13:25:20.165-05:002013-09-11T13:25:20.165-05:00Bob,
Rare is the time that I can agree with ALL t...Bob,<br /><br />Rare is the time that I can agree with ALL that is said in a single comment, but this is just such a time. I've been through the death camp museum in Israel coming away with the same disgust you've described after your visit to Uber Salzburg. Thanks for commenting.<br />Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-60631933701275659772013-09-11T13:16:26.529-05:002013-09-11T13:16:26.529-05:00We tend to think the whole world reflects us, and ...We tend to think the whole world reflects us, and that's just not true. In fact, the problem with all generalizations is that they never, ever apply to you or to me as individuals. And isn't that the way God views us? Aren't we saved or lost individually, and not based on whether we're part of an identifiable social group?<br /><br />I don't care what the statistics are, as respects black crime. The statistics are what they are, but they say NOTHING about Edgar & Nikki Gantt, two of the most delightful folks I've ever met, and vital members of my SS class.<br /><br />Even as respects "Christians", how do you suppose good honest Catholic folks in Northern Ireland would describe us?<br /><br />Last, I went to the Nazi Documentation Center in Ubersalzburg, many years ago. It exists to document for all to see, the atrocities of the Nazi Third Reich. And it's all there, from explicit pictures to an organizational chart for the death camps. ALL of that flowed from one man's prejudice against another class of people. I honestly think that, if anyone went through that center, they'd have the same utter disgust for any form of prejudice, that I've experienced ever since I walked out that door.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-57011675253109541262013-09-10T13:40:22.390-05:002013-09-10T13:40:22.390-05:00Rex,
I'm not sure I followed all the logic of...Rex,<br /><br />I'm not sure I followed all the logic of some of your nuances, but that said, I appreciate your comment. <br /><br />I posted the joke about the tail-gunner on my Facebook timeline about a month ago. It's REALLY funny to me.<br /><br />Were I to agree with all you've said, that's not a commitment to that, just a manner of speaking, I would not change a single word I wrote in the post. It's a matter of principle for me, rather than pragmatism. <br /><br />So, whether it's a good time to say it or whether someone won't "buy" it, although I'm not trying to sell anything, is of no consequence for me. I hold to the principle of rejecting racial bigotry and even confronting it when necessary, on both the Christian [personal] and Constitutional [social] basis, period.<br /><br />I do think you're correct that Jesus used a whip on one occasion. If I remember correctly, it was against the established leaders of the Religion of the day and the way they let greed rule the moment.<br /><br />As usual, He set quite an example by being opposed to doing things in the religious realm out of a spirit of pragmatism. [If it makes things easier, having the sacrifice handy for sale, and makes a little side money too, do it.]Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-44491951515644844822013-09-10T08:28:13.790-05:002013-09-10T08:28:13.790-05:00Paul,
IMHO, the ‘timing’ of your post could not co...Paul,<br />IMHO, the ‘timing’ of your post could not come at a ‘worse’ time as far as ‘selling’ it.<br /><br />It’s like the problem Obama is having trying to sell America on what to do.<br /><br />I listen to the nice song “Don’t you wish it was true”. Then I heard “I saw it on TV”. <br /><br />I think of the big smile of Kennedy not knowing he had less than a minute to live.<br /><br />His smile is about the same way I think of your post sounding so good. <br /><br />Remember Jesus used a whip.<br /><br /><br />What do you think of holding a revival in Detroit? <br /><br />Some might feel as the man being transferred there as in this story:<br /><br />Bob was sitting on the plane waiting to fly to Detroit, when a guy took the seat beside him. The guy was an emotional wreck, pale, hands shaking, moaning in fear.<br />"What's the matter?" Bob asked.<br /> "I've been transferred to Detroit - I've heard the people are crazy there. They've got lots of shootings, gangs, race riots, drugs, poor public schools, and the highest crime rate in the nation."<br />Bob replied, "I've lived in Detroit all my life. It's not as bad as the media says. Find a nice home, go to work, mind your own business, and enroll your kids in a nice private school. It's as safe a place as anywhere in the world."<br />The guy relaxed and stopped shaking and said, "Oh, thank you. I've been worried to death. But if you live there and say it's OK, I'll take your word for it. What do you do for a living?"<br />"I'm tail gunner on a Budweiser truck."<br />Rex Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976501582240117188noreply@blogger.com