tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post115928569347315969..comments2023-10-24T07:03:42.942-05:00Comments on vtmbottomline: SOME THINGS I'M SURE ABOUT--SOME THINGS I'M NOT --- PART 1Paul Burlesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159958856215431232006-10-04T05:47:00.000-05:002006-10-04T05:47:00.000-05:00Bryan and Robin,Thanks guys. With this being the b...Bryan and Robin,<BR/><BR/>Thanks guys. With this being the busy time for my traveling, It's been tough to find the time it takes for these old fingers and this old brain to get the job done, but, you are an inspiration to me to get it on the way. It's coming soon. Thanks for your interest.<BR/><BR/>Paul B.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159944322234867842006-10-04T01:45:00.000-05:002006-10-04T01:45:00.000-05:00Paul, I'm becoming impatient for your next post!! ...Paul, I'm becoming impatient for your next post!! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159506097930506372006-09-29T00:01:00.000-05:002006-09-29T00:01:00.000-05:00You said, "While revelation doesn't continue, IMHO...You said, "While revelation doesn't continue, IMHO, my enlightenment does." <BR/><BR/>Thanks for that reminder...SigPreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653328410209637802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159379044819327152006-09-27T12:44:00.000-05:002006-09-27T12:44:00.000-05:00Takes faith to walk in faith when it isn't clear. ...Takes faith to walk in faith when it <B>isn't</B> clear. I think that's why God leaves so much stuff like this lying around.<BR/><BR/>That's <B>SO</B> like Him, IMO.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159361688215681512006-09-27T07:54:00.000-05:002006-09-27T07:54:00.000-05:00Bob,Thanks for clarification. I do hold a slightly...Bob,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for clarification. I do hold a slightly different view. I'll try to say it briefly.<BR/><BR/>I do believe "porneia" is a legitimate ground for divorce [though not a command to divorce] because of the Matt. passage. It seems to me Mark, who makes no mention of the exception, had a different purpose. He was showing the OT grounds listed in Deut. 24 did not fit God's original purpose for marriage. So he does not use the "porneia" clause because it was not germaine to his point. If this were all stated in the NT I would have to concur with you. But Matt comes into play.<BR/><BR/>Matt is showing to the Jewish audience that "porneia" IS the only legitimate grounds. If Mark had said "not even adultery [porneia]" there would be problems, but he didn't, so there is no contradiction between the two. Paul adds desertion later. So my view is that there are three ways a marital covenant can be ended. Death, divorce because of porneia, [right to not ought to] and desertion. [Meaning believer deserted by unbeliever] [Desertion has to be defined as well as unbeliever ie one who has never professed faith or one who has been judged to not be a believer because of lack of repentence.]<BR/><BR/>I'm open to more light because this one is not too clear is it.<BR/><BR/>Again, Thanks for your input and insight.<BR/><BR/>Paul B.Paul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159327427354519892006-09-26T22:23:00.000-05:002006-09-26T22:23:00.000-05:00Paul:My thought was that if it links divorce & rem...Paul:<BR/><BR/>My thought was that if it links divorce & remarriage with (subsequently) adultery, and the exception to the adultery is where the divorce was for "pornia", then that's <B>all</B> it says. It doesn't say it is ok to divorce in that case, or that God doesn't hate it.<BR/><BR/>In other words, even where there's adultery, I think the "let not man put asunder" still applies. <BR/><BR/>I also want to state that the best friend I have is divorced and remarried and he could not be a finer Christian. I have nothing against remarried folks; I just want to be solid, biblically.Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159307019805863792006-09-26T16:43:00.000-05:002006-09-26T16:43:00.000-05:00Kevin,Thanks. I think the next post will speak to ...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>Thanks. I think the next post will speak to your concerns if I've read your thoughtful comments on other blogs correctly.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bryan,<BR/><BR/>Apart from the fact that her condition [multiple marriages and a present non-marriage] did not disqualify her from experiencing God's Grace and Compassion, it probably isn't germaine to this discussion since it was all before her conversion. That's a discussion within itself though isn't it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Art,<BR/><BR/>There are those who catagorize unrepentent actions of physical/sexual and other abuses as evidence of an unbelieving heart. An unwillingness to repentent, remember, brings an "infidel" assumption. They say were the Church to deal honestly and confront correctly marriages that are in trouble there could be help in discerning where believers/unbelievers stood in regards to such behavior. <BR/><BR/>They may be right.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bob,<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I understand your second paragraph. But, the Jesus passage in Matthew [Mark etc.] and the Pauline passage in 1 Corinthians were given as an "except for this or that". His hatred of it doesn't change but His permission for it and a right to remarry are seen to be different than the Moses passage of Deut.24. Sorry if I'm missing you meaning. I often have a foggy brain. :)<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Burlesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17021178307705707423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159301887074999112006-09-26T15:18:00.000-05:002006-09-26T15:18:00.000-05:00Paul:I believe the 1 Corinthians reference is to t...Paul:<BR/><BR/>I believe the 1 Corinthians reference is to the unbelieving partner departing. I'm not aware of other references to desertion in that context.<BR/><BR/>The immorality reference, unless I'm mistaken, states that if you divorce for <B>other reasons</B> than that, and remarry, you commit adultery. I do not recall it says divorce is "ok" in those circumstances.<BR/><BR/>My personal position is that God hates divorce .. and that's a blanket statement .. and it doesn't say except for this or that.<BR/><BR/>BUT .. season that with this thought: something God hates and that Jesus said "let NO MAN..." of ... you'd think God would be really, really clear about that. But it's not, at least not as far as human minds seem to be able to perceive.<BR/><BR/>SO ... maybe it is that God really is interested in the heart, and Jesus grace really DOES exceed our comprehension. It's true that we'll have to stand there and explain it some day, but I suspect we'll all be pretty busy doing that, with or without divorce. <BR/><BR/>I'll settle for grace, and His promise that He will personally sustain my marriage and I ain't never, ever gonna give up on it.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of which: 47 years? Small world again. We hit 48 next March 13th. And yes, it was <B>Friday the 13th</B>!Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159298891162597972006-09-26T14:28:00.000-05:002006-09-26T14:28:00.000-05:00Paul,Thanks for your genuine transparency.I have a...Paul,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your genuine transparency.<BR/><BR/>I have a question for you. Would you catagorize physical, emotional or verbal abuse in any of these catagories?<BR/><BR/>I will own up and say that I do. I have known folks who say that a wife who is beaten should stay married and pray for help, if she is divorced she should seek reconciliation and/or she can never, under any circumstances, be remarried.<BR/><BR/>I have a hard time reconciling that with Scripture.<BR/><BR/>Divorce is a terrible thing. My parents are divorced - I know how bad it is, so I hope no one takes that out of context as me lobbying for divorce. I would never do that.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again.<BR/><BR/>Artart rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00058253532158878707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159296193690873352006-09-26T13:43:00.000-05:002006-09-26T13:43:00.000-05:00Christians need strong biblical truth in love with...Christians need strong biblical truth in love with grace, just as your words are attempting to show. Thank you. Does the Samaritan woman at the well add anything to this discussion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28605099.post-1159288131560606552006-09-26T11:28:00.000-05:002006-09-26T11:28:00.000-05:00Paul,This series is very timely for me and the chu...Paul,<BR/><BR/>This series is very timely for me and the church I'm in. I look forward to learning from your wisdom!Kevin Busseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04348284292255381355noreply@blogger.com